Question:
Is there a best way to do this? I read some builders twist the component lead with other leads or wires going into that eyelet before soldering.If so, use needle nose pliers? Any danger of weakening the component lead by doing this.Any advice will be appreciated.The eyelet board is G10 fiberglass and laid out for a Pro 5E5.How about soldering with the component side down? thanks,
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>Is there a best way to do this? I read some builders twist the >component lead with other leads or wires going into that eyelet before >soldering.If so, use needle nose pliers? Any danger of weakening the >component lead by doing this.Any advice will be appreciated.The eyelet >board is G10 fiberglass and laid out for a Pro 5E5.How about soldering >with the component side down? thanks,
There is no reason to twist parts together – in fact it’s bad idea. You won’t get the part out after you do that, and you stress the lead for nothing. You can put parts on either or even both sides if you want. The only thing to watch out for is what’s called a "flux joint". Sometimes flux from the solder will occupy the space inside the eyelet and prevent a part from being soldered. It will look ok but one lead will be loose, held only by flux. Be careful to solder EACH lead in the eyelet when there are a bunch together, and use a pick to remove all of the flux later. (Always a good idea.) Bob Graduate of 3 week Pace advanced soldering course.
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thanks Bob for that information.I did not know to watch for rosen joints or to solder each lead separately.I’ll do some practice beforehand.No twisting of leads for me.
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To avoid a "flux joint" you do what? Will keeping the heat on it a few extra seconds burn it off? PL
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> To avoid a "flux joint" you do what? Will keeping the heat on it a few > extra seconds burn it off? PL
Phil : What Bob said, just make sure each lead gets individual attention. No "group" soldering. I’ve got an old Gibson with one eyelet that has about 7 components going into it and it was a real mess to deal with when I had a problem in that location. I was a real novice at the time, and I ended up with what I now understand to be a bad solution. Even though it worked, I’m not sure I’ll ever get it apart again without using cutters and a very hot iron. Just take your time and pay attention. You’ll do just fine. Phil S.
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>To avoid a "flux joint" you do what? Will keeping the heat on it a few >extra seconds burn it off? PL
No, you can’t ‘burn off’ flux, you will just over heat your parts and board. If you burn a fiberglass board it will turn to carbon ( a very good conductor ) and self destruct when you power up! I guess you haven’t had a soldering course… this is what you do… 1 Clean the leads and eyelet, insert all the leads required. 2 use a tip large enough to cover the eyelet and leads, some small PCB tips designed for computer boards are too small. I use a 1/4" tip at 800F but that’s me… and use the bigger .068 ( I think it is ) solder. 3 Clean the tip on a wet sponge before EVERY joint. 4 Wet the tip with solder and then apply it to the eyelet and one lead, count to 2 or 3 5 Apply solder to the junction of the tip and lead and eyelet and wait for it to melt – should be counting to 4 or 5 by now. 6 Push 1/4 to 1/2 inch of solder into the eyelet, move the tip around a bit… REMEMBER how much solder you used on the best looking joint and use that as your guide. 7 If there are more leads, move the tip onto them and apply the solder to them until it melts. You won’t have to apply too much more solder, just get them wet as well. 8 inspect the joint with a x10 loupe, solder should connect all leads to the eyelet. 9 Scrape off all of the flux with a dentist pick. NOTE: You DON’T want a hill of solder on top of the joint, you want a VALLEY where you can see all the leads and the eyelet, and a good solder connection to all parts. There should not be a hole thru the joint either, but actually that is NOT important, as the leads solder on the sides of the eyelet. Also, inspect the other side of the board to see if the solder flowed through. That’s where you’ll find a flux joint – no flow through… Bob Amp builder
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thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer mounting bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. .
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> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. > .
Phil: For most work, the 30-35W option is the most appropriate. For the brass plate, you will need as much heat as you can muster for a good connection. One strategy is to install the bolt and a decent loop of braided copper as your very first step, before any other parts are in the way. Use a propane torch to heat it up if the 45W iron proves to be too cold. Careful not to discolor the chassis (it’s ugly, that’s all). Then, you will be able to attach your ground leads to the braided copper with an ordinary iron. To connect to the tranny bolt, terminate the wire with a ring terminal, insuring that it won’t slip off. Regards, Phil S.
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> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. > .
Phil: you might want to download the PDF manual on this page and check page 14. It is Heathkit’s standard instructions on how and how not to make a proper solder. Very similar to Bob’s excellent advice, but a bit more descriptive. http://www.heathkit-museum.com/ListArchive/msg02419.html Regards, Phil S.
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> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. > .
Tin the connection with the iron holding down the wire, then drop the solder and grab a spudger to hold the wire down as you withdraw the iron. Or you can drill holes in the brass plate in order to facilitate soldering wires to it. For an eyelet build, the way Fender did it was to solder from the back, upside down. This results in very easily inspectable joints. Your 1/4" tip is too big, you need a size or two smaller tip for general eyelet work… I use a 1/8" chisel on an Ungar 35w element and handle. Your connections should look like a smooth shiny bubble from the component side. This is called a ‘wet’ connection, and is the main goal of soldering. I use a q-tip to apply a very light surface coat of (electronics!) paste flux to the completed eyelet connection before soldering. Hit it hard and fast with a hot iron and solder and get off it quick… the quicker you make the connection, the cooler the surrounding components remain. Ironically, (!) this means having a hotter iron. Rich uses a 200w gun for this reason, among others (raised by wolves). I’ll bet the irons used by the little old ladies on Fender’s production line were not wimpy! __ Steve .
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>thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable >heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a >1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass >grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. >When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from >moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to >answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a >professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large >wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer mounting >bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. >.
Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder. You can usually rig up something if you have a small vacuum base bench vise and other vice grips and things… or you can practice soldering on the fly, using a few fingers to hold each object. Sometimes I arrange the solder so I can push it down with my nose onto the joint… keep the solder on the big reel… To solder on a metal plate (I used to solder RF cavities, with 1/8" wire on a thick aluminum and brass plate, I used about 3 ’stove’ irons at once) you need to first tin the wire with fresh solder and flux, and then heat the plate up till you can make a puddle of solder on it, and quickly set the wire into the puddle using the iron tip to hold it and then a screwdriver blade or something, as you remove the iron… hold your breath and don’t let anything move till it sets! It’s best to practice this quite a bit… Try soldering resistors to your stove… so at least you’ll have an ohm on the range… Bob enjoying a beer on Labor Day
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>Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder.
AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips. I do alot of high $ part work, and when ya play that stupid game, you HAVE to produced the ‘gold plated tin wired, silver’ mOjO the customer is paying for. * U * wanna burn out that $$ of level part. Not me. Clip everything..everywhere.. One must work tension so they don’t damage, and ONLY use non-plated copper. Radididideio-ish-shucker has them. But I have to say, anyone not saving all this soldering data on file is an idiot. In the OFD, this didn’t happen. PRATICE..PRATICE..PRATICE.. less IS more.. Thanks to all who help everyone. Learn or be sold to.. JJTj
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder. > AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips. > I do alot of high $ part work, and when ya play that stupid > game, you HAVE to produced the ‘gold plated tin wired, silver’ > mOjO the customer is paying for. * U * wanna burn out that > $$ of level part. Not me. Clip everything..everywhere.. > One must work tension so they don’t damage, and ONLY use > non-plated copper. Radididideio-ish-shucker has them. > But I have to say, anyone not saving all this soldering > data on file is an idiot. In the OFD, this didn’t happen. > PRATICE..PRATICE..PRATICE.. less IS more.. > Thanks to all who help everyone. Learn or be sold to.. > JJTj
Hi, When delicate things needs soldering, heat sinking is needed like alligator clip but it’s heat conducing could prevent good soldering depending on situation. Some times I hold things together with laundry hanging clip which is made of wood(non-heat conducting). I used to solder per mil-spec. Tony
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> Is there a best way to do this? I read some builders twist the > component lead with other leads or wires going into that eyelet before > soldering.If so, use needle nose pliers? Any danger of weakening the > component lead by doing this.Any advice will be appreciated.The eyelet > board is G10 fiberglass and laid out for a Pro 5E5.How about soldering > with the component side down? thanks,
I have had a young fellow helping out here for the last two months. I loose my intern to a music college is a week or two. When I take in an intern or apprentice, the first two weeks is nothing but soldering. I have a whole demo routine I go through that is not covered in the books. So, let me give you all a fast short form version of this, because I type like a snail, and I don’t have time to write a complete book here on the subject. But, this will get you started. First, use Google to find the PDF file of the Weller Soldering Manual. Next, the selection of the right iron for the job, is most important. ALWAYS have more heat than you need. I’m not very big on soldering irons. When you see me at work, I pack a pair of Weller 8200-N shootin irons in dual cross draw holsters style. Yes, some days I have the cowboy hat on too. With a new tinned tip on one of my shootin irons, it will reach 1000 degrees F. Yet, I use it on PC boards all the time. But, NOT at 1000 degrees F. I like shooting irons for the temp control, and the fact they are only in use when the trigger is pulled. For you energy conservation minded, it’s the only way to cut down on phantom load from the work bench. Now, let’s smoke up the room with a little soldering. You are going to need the following: 1. A high intensity light, to light up your work close up. 2. A spool of Radio Shack 60/40 solder .062 dia 3. A 100 watt iron or Weller 8200-N 4. A piece of *CLEAN* & *SMOOTH* pine board at least 8 inches square 5. A LEVEL work area 6. Basic hand tools to handle working with wire 7. 6 feet of standard stranded lamp cord Now, that you have collected these items, we have to round up some stuff for an EXPERIMENT. This is actually more important than anything you can find printed on the subject of soldering. You are going to need the following: A small corn flakes bowl filled half way with water. One loaded pepper shaker One bar of soap from the bathroom soap dish Now, put that bowl of water on the work surface with the high intensity light over it. Shake pepper from the pepper shaker and cover the surface of the water well. Notice it floats. Why. Because there is a SKIN on the surface of the water. Which, is caused surface tension. Look very closely at the surface of the water around the pepper with the high intensity light. You may see that the surface between the pepper grains is not quite flat. You can also float a sewing needle on that skin, if in placing the needle on it, you don’t break the skin. But, pepper good enough for what we have to do. NOW, while looking very closely at the surface again, touch only the corner of that bar of soap to the surface of the water in the CENTER of the bowl. Watch what happens very closely. Yes, the soap broke the surface tension. If that pepper had not been there, you would not have known, that happened. OK, now you can throw that experiment into the kitchen sink, we’re done with that now. The reason for the experiment is to show you what surface tension is, and tell you that solder when liquid, has the same surface tension. Now, I’m going to show you that too. Make sure that piece of pine board is CLEAN and SMOOTH on BOTH sides. To make sure it’s smooth, you could hit it with some 320 fine sand paper, to insure proper results. Which, may vary from the ideal. <lesson one> 1. Place that pine board under the high intensity lamp. 2. Peel off the spool of solder a straight length of solder approximately 12" long. 3. In the center of the pin e board, 1/3 from the LEFT SIDE, place the tip of the iron. 4. Now fast as it will melt, feed the solder to the tip, and make a BLOB about 3/8" in size. 5. Pull the iron from the solder, and very quickly, look at the surface very closely!!!!!! Can you SEE the surface. Can you SEE is swirling and moving. As the solder cools, did you notice the motion slows and stops. Did you notice, if the air is very still, how bright the surface is when it reaches room temperature. Most important, notice the final SHAPE of the BLOB. That SHAPE is caused by the surface tension. A drop of water on glass has a very similar shape, for the sam reason. Notice the amount of rosin on the wood around the solder blob. <lesson two> Remove the blob, and place it off to the side for now. Again, to the letter, do the following: 1. Peel off the spool of solder a straight length of solder approximately 12" long. 3. In the center of the pin e board, 1/3 from the RIGHT SIDE, place the tip of the iron. 4. Now fast as it will melt, feed the solder to the tip, and make a BLOB about 3/8" in size. 5. Pull the iron from the solder, and very quickly, look at the surface very closely!!!!!! So, we have just performed a repeat of what we did before. Only, this time, on a new surface to the right side of the board. Now, here is what we are going to do. 6. Place the tip back into that BLOB, and keep it there. 7. Move the BLOB around with the tip of the iron. As you keep on doing this, NOTICE the SHAPE of the BLOB. NOTICE, the change in the SURFACE, the longer you keep doing this. It’s OK if you BURN the board and make a little smoke. KEEP GOING. When it really starts getting UGLY, see if you can use the tip of the iron and divide it into two EQUAL ugly parts. Then, let them BOTH cool to room temperature. Now, what happened here is you lost the surface tension the rosin makes possible. You just boiled it off. How many times have you seen that before. OK, what do you do if you boil off the rosin and are left with this mess doing a soldering task. Well, there are two things you can do. That’s why you have those two ugly solder BLOBS still sitting there. <lesson three> 1. Pop one of the solder BLOBS off the board. 2. Place that solder BLOB to the left where the rosin sits from lesson one. 3. Place the tip of the iron into the ugly blob, and roll it around in the rosin. 4. When it rolls around as a ball again, pull the tip and let it cool undisturbed. So, we still have that other UGLY blob sitting over there on the right side of the board yet. What do we do with that one. 5. Peel off some solder from the spool, and place the tip of the iron into the last ugly blob of solder. 6. Add a little bit of solder to the blob as you roll it around. 7. When it has that ball shape again, pull the iron, and let it cool to room temperature undisturbed. Notice how little solder was needed to get that ball shape back again. Notice how both those solder blobs almost look the same. Now place the blob we placed off to the side before, in the middle of these two for comparison. <lesson four> 1. Knock the blobs of the board, and turn it over. 2. Cut lengths of solder to 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 1", 1 1/4. 3. Place them on the board in order of size. 4. Grab that HOT iron, and coat the tip with solder. 5. knock of the excess and touch it to the end of the shortest length of solder. Watch closely. What happened. 6. knock of the excess and touch it to the end of the Next shortest length of solder. Watch closely. What happened. 7. Repeat till the last piece of solder is touched. Well, I guess we learned here, that solder it attracted to the heat. The more the heat, the more the attraction. <summary> Without rosin, there is no soldering. You boil off the rosin, you are taking too long. I solder in a micro second, what take others 5-10 seconds to do. Lowering the heat is not the answer. It takes longer for the solder to reach FLOW temperature, and the parts being soldered will now reach higher temperatures. This should get you started with the right approach. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
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> >Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder.
just how high dollar? maybe you should use this instead of alligator clips http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3831751197741115059&q=solder&… > AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips.
http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20G…
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>just how high dollar? maybe you should use this instead of alligator >clips >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3831751197741115059&q=solder&…
Well, not THAT hi $. Great vid.. > AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips. >http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20G…
Well, I ment here. I like the idea of wood’n ones, never thought of it B4. Another great link, btw.. SO much to learn from online. I learned 80% the OTHER way, you kids 2day better grab all the knowledge ya can.. JJTj …It is history in the making… ……and it’s in the Key of ‘ A ‘.. …what more can any civilized man want…
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-snip interesting demo- >I solder in a micro second, what take others 5-10 seconds to do.
That reminds me of when I took my course in the 80s, when it came time to practice on 16 pin DIPs, I still had my 1/4" chisel tip in the iron. The instructor told me to change it, it was too big for IC work. Already having 20 years experience, I told him "No problem, I can do this easy!" He said "Oh yeah?" and I promptly soldered in the chip in about 30 seconds, about 2 seconds per pin. "I love the high thermal mass I get from this tip" I said. He turned to the rest of the class and said "You people use the small tip until you have the experience!" One demo I use to show people how to solder is to get them to solder a wire to a dirty penny – one time as is (almost impossible), the next time with liquid RA flux. One guy wanted to take the soldered wire and penny with him, he was so proud of it!
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>One demo I use to show people how to solder is to get them to solder a wire to a >dirty penny – one time as is (almost impossible), the next time with liquid RA >flux. One guy wanted to take the soldered wire and penny with him, he was so >proud of it!
ONCE you learn how to do that with the right tools, you learn the right tools for the job(s).. JJTj
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> http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20G…
Would everyone PLEASE send this link to Fender, Marshall, Vox, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, etc…. to improve the quality of their products. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
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My way, after 30 years of soldering, to keep parts in the eyelet from moving is to use aluminum tape (strips off the roll)to hold all in place, and remove when done. Works like a dream. Give it a try. Chris Calvin Associates
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have > a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the > chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire > from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a > large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil > L.. > .
